Curious Dad Chats with Dr. Alice Wilder – Part III

 In Part III of the Curious Dad’s chat with Dr. Alice Wilder, Dan and Dr. Wilder talk about being sticky, educational DVD for babies, and Anna’s chances of becoming a Mets fan.

To read Part I of the email exchange, click here.  To read Part II, click here.  And to learn more about “Think It Ink It Publishing”, click here.

Daniel: I have to tell you, I was not in the least bit surprised to read that you agreed and disagreed with the do-your-best-don’t-have-to-be-the-best mantra and especially about the real-world applications as a way to overcome my inability to do better than a D+ in biology. I wasn’t really surprised because I think you were implying that education, be it for little kids, high school students (and maybe even adults?), has to be, dare I say it, “sticky.”

Dr. Wilder: Yes! Exactly, nicely said.

Daniel: This word, of course, was used by Malcolm Gladwell in his book The Tipping Point to describe kids’ educational programming, i.e. shows like “Blue’s Clues,” for which you were the Director of Research and Development and a Writer/Producer

Dr. Wilder: Yes. And after 155 weeks on the New York Times Paperback Best Seller list I think he is onto something that many people wish they could put their finger on!!

I think anyone who has read The Tipping Point and also knows about Think It Ink It Publishing will be able to deduce that Think It Ink It Publishing is, indeed, sticky. I would certainly argue that’s the case because it is about getting kids to develop a life-long (I suppose the ultimate definition of “sticky”) love of reading and writing and to be creative. And as I’ve said throughout this entire exchange, that’s such a powerful and important lesson to learn and creative spark to ignite.

Dr. Wilder: It is very insightful and nice of you to say…I will also explain below in answer to your questions why we think you are right about what makes Think It Ink It Publishing ‘sticky’. Aside from what I say below (and what I have mentioned in previous email exchanges), we think what makes Think It Ink It Publishing sticky is that it is based on a combination of our knowledge of kids, their strengths, their skills, what they like, designing the program based on feedback from them, and our respect of kids – wanting to give them a ‘real’ experience that values quality. Aside from knowing the educational side, my business partners know art, design, and illustrations and we only want to provide this experience if it can respect the quality that we know kids deserve.

Daniel: And to be honest, this actually ties into your comments about it “becoming about the parent” and not the kid. I think about all the stuff I do for Anna and sometimes I wonder, is it because I want her to be a good kid, fun, energetic, happy, loving, etc., or is it because I want to her to be valedictorian, get into Stanford (on a soccer scholarship, of course!) and then go to Yale Law School. I mean, what dad doesn’t want to wear a sweatshirt proclaiming that their kid went to Yale Law School?

I think I am on the road to recovery, though, thanks to the lines you used in your Skidmore speech. Very profound and at the same time applicable. A great combination — especially the comment about the personal mission statement because part of mine would be to guide Anna but let her live her own life.

Dr. Wilder: Very nice! She will greatly benefit from this statement. Don’t forget this one when she is a teen.  J I can remind you.

Daniel: That would be great.  Especially if it looks like I’m on the verge of having to wear a Harvard Law sweatshirt. 

Anyway, let’s go back to the whole sticky thing as a wrap-up to this great exchange. I’m sure you saw the University of Washington study about the impact (or lack thereof) of educational videos like “Baby Einstein.” They essentially said there was no effect (positive or negative) on a kid’s vocabulary skills, and that in some cases, viewing too much of these programs can be detrimental. In a fine rebuttal in the NY Times (a subscription is required to read the article) on August 16, Lisa Guernsey states that a kid has to watch massive amounts of TV to have the program, DVD, etc., be, for lack of a better word, harmful.

To be honest, I couldn’t agree more with Guernsey, especially with the I-just-need-a-break-for-a-few-minutes-so-watch-this-”educational”- program statements. Just today, for example, Anna was so tired but kept crying. I just needed a few minutes of quiet so I turned on “The Simpsons.” She was silent (except for a few giggles at Homer’s antics).

It’s too bad that” The Simpsons” and “SportsCenter” aren’t stick. Oh well.

Anyway, this all leads me to my final set of questions…

What impact did your work on “Blue’s Clues” have in the design and creation of “Think It Ink It Publishing?”

Dr. Wilder: Just like in my speech to parents and graduates at Skidmore – everything that I work on is a compilation of all of the experiences in my life. I would say this is true for the other creators of Think It Ink It Publishing as well. Fran, Michael and Dasha each has their own experience that when we were all brought together made this incredible product. Because of our cumulative experiences Think It Ink It Publishing is a good idea and educational concept as well as beautiful and professionally illustrated. We all created this to validate, entertain and empower children, while giving them practice that they really need with writing and reading skills.

As an example, in terms of my cumulative experience my ‘story’ created my mission statement and guides the work that I do – since high school, where I was not a good student at all (hence the desire to help kids), to conducting research in Psych Lab at Skidmore, to watching the movie Big and wanting to be the character Tom Hanks played, to my work in a toy store and at PBS, to getting my doctorate in Educational Psychology at Teachers College, Columbia, to working at Blue’s Clues and having the kind of impact that we had there – it all adds up.

I wrote my own mission statement, which is to create, develop, and research ‘products’ (loosely defined) for kids. The key for me is that the products I develop have to be educational AND entertaining, interesting, and relevant to their lives. This is a compilation of my experiences and this is why the first time I saw the Blue’s Clues pilot “I cried” and could not turn down the opportunity.

It’s all intertwined and I won’t work on anything that does not follow the above mission. Fran, Michael and Dasha all have their experiences and all of them combined (stars aligned) is Think It Ink It Publishing.

Daniel: Do you think “Think It Ink It Publishing” will be/can be the next big “sticky” educational tool?

Dr. Wilder: We think Think It Ink It Publishing will and can be the next big “sticky” educational tool for a variety of reasons.

A.)We think it is the perfect blend of education, empowerment, quality, and entertainment. It respects kids and knows kids.

B) Much writing consists of a teacher or parent asking a child to answer a question or come up with an idea and write (and sometimes draw about it).For many kids who struggle with writing, a blank piece of paper is intimidating. Having the illustrations that are rich with detail and possibilities provides a starting point that captures kids’ imagination and starts the creativity flowing. As Malcolm would say, it’s small (well founded and researched) changes to ideas that can make a big difference.

C) Technology, and what to do with technology in classrooms or at home is a hot topic for teachers and parents. People want to find ways to use technology more as kids need to be technologically savvy AT THE SAME TIME they want to use technology only if it is productive and educational (and will help fulfill the curriculum).We offer a way to use technology with a meaningful and educational purpose – that appeals to kids.

Daniel: In terms of educational programming and DVDs and the such, where do you see the line between too much and too little to gain value?  Moreover, what are your thoughts on the UW study? Do you agree with Lisa Guernsey?

Dr. Wilder: You are trying to push my buttons here, right?! J Just kidding. I have too much to say about all of this, so I will try to just pick out a few thoughts. Also it’s hard to describe my view because neither side is ‘right’. And my POV is different depending on the age of a child. Where do I stand?

Everything in moderation.

I agree that people who think TV is negative are the ones that we hear from the most. And most of the discussion is around how much time kids spend watching TV. Where what Lisa says, “I’ve learned that it helps to consider what I call the three C’s: content, context and the individual child.” is crucial to the argument. But who is making the decision? Who decides? What are their standards?

Too much time in front of the television is not good, for anyone. I understand that sanity is also an issue. And I do not believe that placing a child in front of the TV for short amounts of time will do harm. And the first rule of parenting is that the only way to care for your child is to be sure you are ok first. So yes, gather your sanity and then proceed. But we do not know the effects of television for children under 2 and I would personally not recommend it.

For older children (2, 3, 4, 5…), you will see as your daughter gets older that what she watches, the content, quality and messages of each show will greatly impact what you want her to watch (I hope).Behavioral Resonance is a real theory. What we watch impacts our mood and how we act and react after watching TV. Modeling-wise what we watch also impacts the types of activities that your child will want to do and the things that she says…they are sponges soaking up and absorbing whatever becomes a part of their experience.

I agree with Lisa on the above point as well as the following:

• “Parents who think about context make sure that videos don’t become a substitute for happy moments of interaction and play.”

• “Many studies, including the new one about baby videos, show that a daily dose of reading helps with language development.”

• “It doesn’t take a degree in rocket science to realize that babies need the social interaction that comes with reading – the pointing and labeling, the back-and-forth conversation. Children left alone to watch objects flashing on the TV screen aren’t getting that.”

• “Taking care of babies and toddlers is hard work. While videos aren’t a perfect answer, I can tell you that once in a while, they have kept an exhausted mother from going off the deep end.”

But not everyone has the skills, knowledge, where-with-all, partner or resources to follow through on the above statements. It is important that because turning on the TV is so easy and prevalent it does not mean that we do not need to be critical consumers of it and balance it with other things (it’s just that no one writes news stories about it like that – it has to be dramatic and controversial to make it news).

Daniel: So, be honest with me, Dr. Wilder.  Am I just totally wasting my time or is there any chance that watching Mets games with me will make Anna a Mets fan? Or will it hamper her vocabulary and drive her into the arms of the Evil Empire aka The Yankees?

Dr. Wilder: You may be joking but I have to say…watching Mets games with her will definitely make an impact on her long-term relationship with the Mets and baseball and Sports in general. This is sacred time for her – time for just her and her dad. Also as you know, the beliefs and interests of parents have a lasting impact on children. Early in life whoever is involved most in a child’s life is their center. In your case, it is her parents. Later it will likely also include her friends and other relatives (whoever is close to you).These caregivers teach through example and actions who they are, their values, their likes and dislikes…As you mentioned in our first exchange Steven Leavitt’s book  “Freakonomics” states the presence of books is a predictor of academic success. The presence of books means that you as a parent value them and this gets translated into who they become.

Sorry to get so serious about this but there are many kids for whom books are not part of their lives at all and for whom the TV is on 24 hours a day. These scenarios impact their livestock enough soapbox. I am sure you get where I am coming from…

Maybe she won’t be a Mets fan but it will definitely influence her. How – is up to you and her.

Daniel:  This has been so much fun, Dr. Wilder.  I don’t think it’s totally inappropriate for me to ask that the next time you get nominated for an award like a Daytime Emmy, I get to go with you to the award’s show? Or if I can’t go with you, will you at least get Susan Lucci’s autograph for me?

Dr. Wilder: Absolutely. You know, I actually was there the year she won her first Emmy! And she gets picked up in her Limo across the street from me I have seen her standing outside waiting. I’ll get it for you.  J